Subject: 2nd Place Sorcerycon
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2024 14:56:32 -0700
From: Neil <neil@oldschoolsorcery.com>
To: Old School Sorcery <admin@oldschoolsorcery.com>

2nd Place in the Main Event @ Sorcerycon 2024 Vegas
By: Neil Troy (@bnrrx7 or neil@oldschoolsorcery.com)

Mike Van Dyke is a member of the Beasts of the Bay Old School Magic club in San Francisco Bay Area
and at Sorcerycon 2024 in Vegas he got 2nd in the Limited Main Event. Despite too many capitals in
that sentence I thought it would be fun to pick Mike's brain to see what he saw from his limited
play at the event. I've known Mike for the past two years playing OS Magic together and watching
him play Sorcery for most of that time too. He is a very skilled OS Magic player, and even though
he lost to me at one of our events to make it into the finals, he is a very skilled and thoughtful
player in Sorcery as well. He has a keen mind for games and thinks through his lines very well. I
talked to Mike over Zoom on the Thursday after the event and have transcribed that conversation
here. Enjoy.

Neil: You got 2nd in the Limited Main Event at Sorcerycon 2024 in Vegas and I'm just wondering
what did you see that maybe other people didn't see. Maybe what you evaluated a little bit
differently. I know when we were Rochester drafting you had a lot of knights and I had no
competition for the knights I'm not saying I'm great for Sorcery either but your record clearly
says you did very well.

Mike: Let me break that into some smaller parts conceptually. Going into it I didn't know quite
what to expect, the first 6 rounds were a little bit of a learning experience. What I really
garnered from that was people realizing how little real removal there is. There is some but its
really hard to kill stuff over a certain size. What I realized after playing those first rounds
was that all the lance effects are like filling in that gap. So if you have a lance and your
opponent doesn't its serving the place of a removal spell. Plus you normally get a guy out of it.
There was a lot of I'll do my best to figure out how many of those effects I could get my hands on
in the draft portion. I'm not saying I succeeded in that so I'm not sure how useful it was. Also
what constitutes a good curve in this? Coming from playing Limited Magic a decade ago I don't know
that the curve exactly translates over to Sorcery. In Sorcery your stuff doesn't just sit there
like in Magic. You play a guy in Magic and if you don't block with it it just stays there forever.
That doesn't really happen here. You are constantly navigating them around but at the same time
some of the smaller minions still serve a purpose later in the game. They still hit a site for 2
and not necessarily something your opponent can handle all the time.

N: I think there is a lot to unpack there. It felt like from what I saw and comments I heard
Wyvern is an uncommon, or Exceptional, whatever. It's hard to kill and it's airborne. For sure you
are getting two for one'd to deal with it, if you can deal with it. Unless you have your own
Wyvern to trade with it or Cast into Exile. There just aren't a lot of effects that are taking it
out. Similarly for like Vikings where maybe a lance is helping you out but that's another one at
Ordinary so the big bodies with maybe exception to the Lumbering Giant were you prioritizing them?
Like did you realize something like that or “lances win” so I'll just go for that? How did you see
it playing out?

M: Definitely, both of those things were priorities when drafting. Obviously I had less say over
that in my sealed pool, but I was playing anything that had 4 power or a lance effect in the
elements I was playing. Kind of like I was saying before I tried to draft as many lance effects as
I could but honestly in both of my drafts I didn't really see very many. Or they'd be, you know,
in the same pack as an actual removal spell like Arc Lightning. I'm already in that element so I'm
like that's much more consistent and I can make it do the thing I need it to do and keep the tempo
going in some cases. Which you can't necessarily do with all the lance minions.

N: So how do you…if we take classic Magic limited like Doom Blade, a great card. You're gonna play
a Doom Blade. Arc Lightning is close to a Doom Blade but it has some caveats that it won't hit.
Would you say you prioritized that over Elite and Unique effects or because its at an Ordinary you
are willing to pass that because you feel that there are some cards that will never wheel? So you
have to take them over Doom Blade. How did you see that play out?

M: I see in the Doom Blade comparison a card like Arc Lightning is just more useful in this case
because of the Death's Door scenario. So I had like one Arc Lightning in the first draft and the
2nd I had two and throughout the Day 2 games I killed more than one person on Death's Door with
Arc Lightning. I also did it in the sealed portion because I had one in my pool. I thought its
just a very versatile card with all the 4 power minions, which is where the lance effects start
dropping off since you can't just kill everything with the ordinary 2 power and a lance.
Especially all the squires that can't really kill anything that big. I think that's why the 4
power is really mattering. Just like on average unless you have one of the Exceptional knights. So
that's why that card (Arc Lightning) just served a real purpose in removing the things they played
so that you could remain onboard or actually ending the game because it gave you reach like a real
burn spell. There were a lot of scenarios where even though it wasn't in my hand, there's a bit of
a chess element to this game where at some point you are deciding I'm going to move my own Avatar
up into the middle of the board because I also need it to be a part of the whole checkmate
scenario. When you do that it immediately makes stuff like Arc Lightning usable for ending the
game like that. I would say that I don't know that I necessarily…I certainly took other effects
over it, I'm trying to remember what they were when I was drafting, because it is an Ordinary and
I did see a handful of them. I think I took some 4 power minion because I felt like I wasn't
filling in that part of the curve. I'm trying to remember the exact circumstance but its been a
few days. You want to do the classic Magic things where your curve is important but even more so
in this game. Having a minion in play is so strong that you probably prioritize the minions over
removal. Like lets say you can draft the Brown Bear or Arc Lightning, they are probably close but
I'd probably lean towards a card like Brown Bear. Because in this game you can also have Brown
Bear attack your opponent's minions so its kind of a removal spell. Its a little worse on average
from that perspective probably but it has the bonus of being great when you are ahead and you also
don't need to just kill their guy you can go after them making it a win condition which is what
I'm getting at. So I definitely prioritized some of those until I had enough of the reasonable
ones I thought. I think you want some kind of mix of them.

N: To me that's quite enlightening in the way that you worded that. I just drafted with Tap's
group on Tuesday, we did a cube, and it was a cube I had never seen before. I just drafted Red
White aggro because I didn't want to think on election night, it was just mind numbing. But what I
think you are saying about creatures being removal is definitely one of those unique aspects of
Sorcery. You see that when you play but you may not be internalizing that when you come to the
draft table especially if you are from Magic. I know when we did that Rochester draft you and I
were certainly taking removal highly and based upon this conversation I would say that was wrong.
And maybe that helps work out the kinks of this because removal is a one time thing. Its great you
get to kill something but so could a 4 power creature and still be on the board. Its a different
baselining…yeh I really like that.

M: Yeh, the minions are really good. There is definitely a time and place for the removal spells
but you get a lot of mileage out of minions. Kind of like I was saying, Arc Lightning is a nice
card to have in your deck because of its dual purpose and its potential for ending the game as
opposed to like holding a Bury effect or whatever you know. That's probably less good than a 4
power minion in this particular format.

N: In Limited for sure. You know you aren't going to see 8 power things constantly like in
Constructed. When the Bury starts going up. Arguably from what you are saying Lightning Bolt is
just not as good, because of that random unit at the site part. They could throw three defenders
at their site and Arc Lightning just doesn't care about that. Of course its cheaper and more mana
efficient for the damage dealt, but it lacks the versatility of breaking through a wall of
minions, but it does have reach. I don't know, they powered them interesting from a theory
perspective, its not obvious which one is better or worse.

M: Yeh, you have all the decision making power in Arc Lightning. In Constructed, I like having
Lightning Bolt because its useful. There weren't that many decks, there were some, when I was
playing constructed that had a full set of Lightning Bolts. Instead it was usually I have one
Lightning Bolt in my Common Sense package because you want to tutor it up in a scenario where it
does end the game or it does kill a Cave Trolls or whatever it happens to be, but you don't want a
handful of them right?

N: Well that was a lot about Arc Lightning but its an interesting card and it won multiple games
for you so its telling you something about the game.

M: Yeh, over the course of the weekend I killed 1-2 matches of sealed and definitely 2 in the
drafts.

N: Ha, and that's just with one or two in the deck, not even 4.

M: And a lot of times when you are ahead and you are getting them to Death's Door. You might be
holding that Arc Lightning anyway, because you know you have to be nearby their Avatar or with a
Spellcaster. But there aren't that many Spellcasters floating around in this stuff that are super
playable. There are good Spellcaster cards in the set don't get me wrong. You may not be able to
draft them. Its not clear Sisters of Avalon is good enough for your deck. I don't think I had a
Spellcaster in my deck…ever…the whole weekend.

N: What about Burning Hands? I think we were high on Burning Hands when we were talking about it
on Saturday. Or at least I was talking to people that were high on Burning Hands. Did you end up
with Burning Hands, not even on your radar? Its doing stuff but not necessarily what you want.

M: Yeh, I think its doing stuff. I think its fine. I don't know how many of them you want. I think
having one is good, it's a solid card. There's definitely a fair amount of 2 power minions it can
kill. The archers are good, I had a lot of success with them, even if they didn't kill a lot of
minions. Usually your opponent won't give you minions to shoot them with but it creates a weird
board state they need to be aware of. So being able to deal with them and sometimes getting a two
for one scenario is pretty great. It also serves a purpose of using your 2 power minions. You are
two for oneing yourself when you do trade in a 2 power minion and Burning Hands for a bigger
minion. But its like the game has progressed into a 4-drop with Burning Hands. Still letting you
get value out of these minions that are getting progressively worse and worse as the game goes on.
So that's how I was using it, I had one in my sealed pool and I think I had one in my first draft
deck. But also my finals opponent demolished me with Burning Hands, so I have to respect that
card. It wasn't a two for one exactly but it was like he killed my archer with one direction and
then he dealt two to my Wyvren, then he Power of Flighted a 3 power minion and traded for the
Wyvren. So he was able to get pretty good value of the situation.

N: In that situation he two for two'd you so they weren't even down a card.

M: Yeh and Power of Flight cantrip'd so he wasn't even down a card.

N: Did you see or play any Tactical Moves? I know Shawn in Seattle thought that card would be
strong and I think Tony even thought that card would be strong. It certainly does a thing, did you
even see that card or consider it?

M: Nobody played that card against me. I can see having one in your deck, I don't think its bad.
It gets better if you have more archers if they are running away from you. So it can obviously
trade into value. So its fine but it also takes up a card in your hand, so that card is replacing
something and if its a 4 power minion I don't think that's worth it.

N: What about Power of Flight though? You said it helped take down your Wyvren, but you wouldn't
normally play Jump in Magic, but this cycles so…

M: I think that card is really good and serves a ton of purposes. Especially given there aren't
that many Airborne minions in the set. So it serves a lot of purpose there and also you know I've
always kind of thought this with cards that give something Airborne temporarily that they kind of
in a way sort of amounts to Blink. Because you get that extra step out of it by being able to take
that diagonal step and it cantrips. I don't think it's quite the same power level as Blink but
they are pretty close probably. Especially in a Limited environment. It also serves a purpose
Blink can't do which is deal with an Airborne minion. I think that card's pretty good. The other
card that cantrips, the stealth one, I didn't like it very much. The effect you are getting of it
is “I've done a bunch of things but now you can't attack my units” which is fine but also, I
dunno, stealth is fine. I like it as a mechanic but I found it challenging to keep stealth in a
lot of scenarios. Essentially if you do anything you aren't going to keep stealth. Yeh, I didn't
like that part as much. I had it in my sealed pool and in my sealed deck and everytime I drew it
it wasn't solving any problems. Like my opponent wants to attack my stuff and I've left them in a
place where that can happen I would probably just move my units away. So they are probably not in
too much danger. And it costs 3 mana. And the difference between 2 and 3 mana I think is a lot
actually. Just from a…I've always said it about this game. I guess it was from a constructed stand
point when I was saying it but it's very similar to the Magic concept of I feel like the person
who often wins the game is the one that can play two meaningful spells in one turn first. Its like
what brings the momentum to you and they are going to have to respond to what you are doing.
That's why cheap removal is so great in Magic and in this game. If you can somehow play a good
minion and remove theirs then you are ahead on the board and if you can maintain that tempo
that'll help you win games. So I feel like going from 2 mana to 3 mana you start losing that
ability to do that. You have to spend more of your time playing sites. If we are talking about 4
mana 4 power minion being the “good” minion to be playing then the difference there is having a
7th site, which is a lot of mana. Even 6 is a lot but you'll get there a lot sooner.

N: Were you the one running Tax Collector in your sealed pool? I know I looked at a lot of sealed
pools. One of the group was running Tax Collector and I was like “wow, that's a real tempo play.”
At 3 mana for 2 its not a good rate and obviously its great if its a true tempo play, but you did
not play that correct?

M: I think I did but it was because I didn't have enough playables.

N: Ha, right! It wasn't like “I'm going to run 2 for fun and its going to be my strategy.”

M: That was not my first choice. It did do a thing, actually. The thing its advertised to do. It
prevented my opponent from playing their 4 drop on curve. So that was nice.

N: But you were also the one that got Hyter Sprited out right? Multiple times?

M: Only one time…but it's happened to me numerous times since AL has come out.

N: They named the one card, like seriously?

M: Hyter Sprites did pretty well in the finals. My opponent was able to prevent me from playing a
minion he had seen with Lookout. I think that's really why that card can be like…when you look at
all the 2 mana minions in the set, how many of them are actually playables? You should have
reasons for putting them in your deck. Eventually there is just diminishing returns when you draw
them later in the game, but some of them are still valuable late game like the Archers. I think
the Sprites can be one of those minions if you also happen to draft some number of Lookouts. If
you're able to play one early in the game, or leave them in your hand for later if you know that
you have Sprites in your deck. Oftentimes you end up drawing a little later in the game when your
Avatar can just draw a site this turn so maybe you keep one of those Lookouts in your hand for
when you draw Sprites. I think it's one of those cards that can be…its borderline…it's hard to
prioritize drafting an Ordinary site out of a pack. Like Lookout is good and all but I'm not going
to pick it over a lot of other cards. I feel you kind of have to stumble into that so it's a
little awkward. You don't want to have to be drafting a bunch of Hyter Sprites early just guessing
what's in your opponent's hand like that's you're just playing a 2 power minion for 2 at that
point. But I think you can stumble into a deck where they are actually pretty good.

N: Were there any Ordinary sites that you prioritized, not like pick 1 pack 1 but you were like “I
need to have 2 Forges and I'll take it pick 6 but I won't like it but I need Forge because I need
a Lance.” Or a Hamlet or some other land that ends up in a situation in pack 3 where you think you
have your playables and you are now prioritizing those lands. Any of them stuck out to you?

M: I probably…I was certainly taking sites midway into a pack. The sites that kind of stuck out to
me the most…Lookout is good, information is good. Seeing what's in your opponent's hand. I think
you should have the gentleman's agreement, you get what I mean…where you just play those cards
face-up. You are just punishing those players that are less familiar with like tournament
mechanics. You're just wasting each other's time if you don't do that. Anyway, I think Lookout is
pretty good. I did really like having the Hunter's Lodge. That was good like we were talking about
before you draw a site later in the game you might leave that one in your hand because it's
genesis ability. I killed stealthy things many times by leaving that in my hand and waiting to
play it. I was definitely taking some of those a little bit after middle of the pack. They start
becoming real appealing. I think the Air stealth one is pretty good too because it just gives your
units stealth. The other site I was surprisingly happy to have, it was in one of my draft decks
and in my sealed pool was Annual Faire.

N: Oh, yeh not an Ordinary.

M: Yeh, not an Ordinary, but an Exceptional. I was just surprised at how useful that is.

N: Yeh, it seems like a house! That card seems crazy in Limited. With 4 colors being viable, right?

M: Exactly, but if you think about it from the Magic equivalent sort of, that'd be a terrible
land. You wouldn't want that!

N: I know, that's part of the fun discovery…you walk in with Magic knowledge and its just not
correct for this game. Despite the games being similar on so many levels there are parts like the
board and you are moving around that you can interact directly with minions that it break all
sorts of Limited Resources stuff you would learn. I think cards that effect the board state (CABS
theory) are still a correct statement, you should be drafting them. Annual Fair though does not
effect the board state but its very strong because your mana is not very good…I'm preaching to the
choir.

M: For sure, I think that card is a lot better than Valley of Delight.

N: Agreed.

M: Like by far. Some of your stuff is a turn behind like it means one of those…especially in
Limited where you only have 12 sites one Annual Fair lets you cast probably like two off-color
Uniques or Knights. Maybe that and couple of the threshold bears means that you can pretty
realistically play those cards.

N: And what did you think about the threshold bears? I walked in thinking they are unplayable, but
after I played the first sealed with Tony I was like…because in Magic it'd be ludicrous to play
that, but here…to go with your point that minions are just so much stronger than a normal creature
in Magic. It can trade, its removal, as you said, and it might do this other thing that you
temporarily need. I almost don't like calling it a bear, because it's almost derogatory. It's only
a 2 mana 2/2, but it's so much more than that, right?

M: Right, I think they were serviceable is a good word. They can fill a role in a deck. I wouldn't
go out of my way to draft them without a payoff. But they definitely serve a purpose. The other
thing that I appreciated about them was that they are also Mortals and that matters in a handful
of scenarios. Like with Keening Banshee that cares if a Mortal dies you can play it for free.
Going back to the who plays the two spells first, I actually think that Banshee is quite good.
Eventhough its a 4 mana 3 power minion. The plan isn't to do that, but you can, and I did plenty
of times and its fine. But actually having that ability to do that is great. Also with stuff like
Burning Hands where a Mortal can cast the card like a Spellcaster. I had those threshold bears do
that, so yeh they served quite a number of purposes.

N: About water was there any in your sealed pool or in draft…you and I drafted a lot of Beta and
water is supported in a draft but if its key pieces aren't there for water it's not coming
together. Did you ever end up in water or see it being played…because it doesn't have all those
water synergies that Beta has right? It's kind of like just blue. It's the same stuff in all the
colors, it's just a blue one. There is no heavy reliance on Waterbound or things like that. Is
that roughly your take? It's a much flatter playing field, all colors are possible, and maybe
water is still the worst? I don't know, that's my opinion not yours because the Ordinaries don't
feel very strong. Like Shellycoat, its a bear but its not going to die to another bear, it's not
going to die to Huntress.

M: So, I did not end up in water, I don't think more than a small splash in my sealed deck. In the
drafts I didn't end up in water. But that wasn't really intentional, I wouldn't say water is
terrible so I avoided it or anything like that. It's got strong minions, like that Lugbog Cat.

N: Ha. Oh, yeh 3 mana 4/4 that can go across the board right?

M: Yeh, it's very strong, that's not always going to be the case. But you play your sites in the
right order and you play it as far forward as possible anyway. I don't think of it as much of a
downside. One of the quarter finals opponents was playing water, and I felt like his deck was
pretty good. Going back to the things that function as removal and being able to kill larger
minions. I don't remember the names of all the cards but that 4 mana 3 power Lethal Submerge at
Ordinary. So it can actually kill all the bigger stuff. That card was surprisingly good. It was
another card that was like “why do I want that? It has lethal but its kind of big already…” but it
still trades with Brown Bears.

N: Right, it trades with Brown Bears, eats all the 2 power things, doesn't die to Huntress.

M: So I thought it was surprisingly annoying on the other side of the table. At one point my
opponent had two of them out and I was like “man these are really hard to deal with.” Like I had a
Magic Missiles in my hand, but he had them in that land…Impenetrable Copse…I was like I just can't
kill that thing and it was stuck there, yeh anyway I thought that card was pretty good.

N: Interesting, its a 4 mana 3 power, below-rate, but with all the birds and squires and 2 power
things, it stops a lot of things with one for one trading.

M: As you were saying, the mechanics of the game being different is very important when you
transport your Magic knowledge. A perfect circumstance there is that thing blocks and kills
Wyvren. Which in Magic that thing would just not do that, the Wyvren would just fly in and attack
you. So its serving a real purpose there. I think that card is actually pretty good. Some of those
other weird tricks and stuff. Somebody did play the water squire which was actually pretty good.
Like I said I hadn't played one but I thought that card was actually pretty good. Also that 4 mana
1 power untapped a thing…Helpful Hob.

N: I think Mr. Hines might have played that at Yeticon, I saw in someone's deck.

M: I wasn't like going to picking it very highly but at the end of a pack and those are
circulating around they'll fill in the curve a little bit. You know, untapping stuff…going back to
the Magic stuff…In Magic you untap a creature and it can just block next turn. But that's not what
is happening here, you actually get two attack steps.

N: It's like giving double-strike, and movement +1, it's a lot.

M: Yeh, it's actually quite a bit. Then you get this random one power body out of it. It's
actually pretty good. I think there is enough going on with water that you can build a pretty good
deck with it.

N: Did you feel…we talked mostly about Ordinaries, in classic Limited its mostly about commons, do
you actually feel that way given the way you saw games play out?I'm sure there were some
Exceptionals, Elites, and Uniques that you saw and I'm sure you were like well I have to answer
this now otherwise it's going to go poorly…I don't know maybe because the deck is so small they
are actually more impactful. So was it Ordinary centric? Or just there are so many Ordinaries in a
pack that you have to have some gameplan about it but when it comes to the game play it's more
Elites and Uniques centric?

M: Um, I'm just trying to think about my games and what was the feel…I think a lot of the
Ordinaries made a big difference. A ton of the Ordinaries are the 4 power minions we talked about
before. I think they play a pretty big role. A lot of the removal is Ordinary so like Magic
Missiles or Arc Lightning. That's actually the one interesting thing to mention that a lot of the
removal is not exactly there. Like we said the minions play that role anyway but it does feel like
air has a lot of those effects…well I guess air and fire have them, but like earth and water don't.

N: Right, there's no Bury, no Cave In, no Riptide. Lots of things we are used to they don't have
so they can't answer that way.

M: Not at Ordinary slot, they have some of the other things like Nelly Longarms…a Unique. So
that's something I hadn't really thought about before until we were at Sorcerycon and playing. I
think that's important, I think that means you end up probably wanting to be in air or fire. It's
hard to avoid that because those removal spells are there for you. I think a lot of the gameplay
revolved around Ordinaries, a lot of the cards were good but you know they aren't insurmountable.
The Elites are just good, but sometimes they aren't better than a Brown Bears. That's the thing I
found kind of funny, oh yeh, I forget the name of it but the Genesis is your opponent picks a site
and when you move there you'll draw a card. Like okay its a 4 mana 4/5 or something, the ability
is like okay whatever maybe it happens, probably not. So its like Brown Bear upgrade and the
threshold is more awkward. It's not that much better than a Brown Bear. Same with all the knights,
yeh a knight gives you a lance but there's stuff that can negate a lance. They can play the one
card to make their enemies drop their artifacts. There are all kinds of different things, or even
the Ordinary fire site that breaks nearby weapons and now your 2 power creature just trades for
the knight. There are a lot of ways to work around the “better” cards with things that are
Ordinaries. It's very interesting how it all plays out.

N: Were there any interesting plays you saw over the weekend you wanted to comment on?

M: Yeh, my finals match that I mentioned earlier I got demolished in. The cards were there for my
opponent but I played good things, it wasn't like I was sitting there and doing nothing. He was
able to, with smaller minions get through my Wyvren, the Grand Old Boar, and a handful of other
things and he was able to deal with all of those threats. So he just played it well and the number
of cantrips he played made me think “maybe I should have been drafting some of those things
higher.”

N: Like Power of Flight?

M: Yeh. I should have probably taken 1 or 2 of those in the draft. I took other things, so I would
have had to give up something but maybe I should have thought of those more highly than I did. It
was probably the fastest match I played all weekend. It was just enlightening how the smaller
minions combined with these cantrip spells and things can kind of keep you up on cards. I feel
like I'm not sure how to feel about Artifacts sometimes. In one of my draft games there's that
Sword and Shield, +2 power. I didn't have one of those, but my opponent did. Sometimes you just
have a way to take that from them. And that is obviously way different then in Magic. So I'm kind
of torn. The card is probably fine but you can lose to your own card very easily.

N: Yeh, if Umezawa's Jitte could be picked up by your opponent you wouldn't run it, it's a very
different card then.

M: Yeh, it's just a very different scenario. I think in Limited I'd just consider not playing
cards like that. Where you just have fewer ways to deal with them easily. I didn't want to
consider playing Just a Rock.

N: Ha! Yeh, a stone cold nothing for 90% of the matchups.

M: Yeh, it doesn't make sense. Like talking about before minions serve a ton of purposes. So I
ended up stealing that from one of my opponents in the draft game and I ended up doing that where
I Jousted his minion so it was closer to my side of the board. So then my Archers could go pick it
up, then my Archers had it for the rest of the game.

N: Right, now it's just killing Brown Bears.

M: Exactly, to be fair he mostly had to avoid ever being close to my Archers but he was no longer
able to use the Sword and Shield and now he had to play around the Archers for the rest of the
game.

N: Right, it's controlling 5 squares, that's the chess aspect. Having your bishops controlling the
center diagonals is strong because you are controlling all of those squares even if they aren't
taking anything. In wrapping up, coming from your experience earlier in life in attending Magic
GPs and doing OS Magic events for the last 7ish years, what did this new game and new event excel
at doing and what would you like to see become of it going forward?

M: I think my experience from Magic, a little over a decade, is part of what I'm going to say is
I'm getting older. That actually plays into what I'm going to say I think. My experience back then
the mentality and the approach that you have to take to play at the professional IRL level stuff
for Magic is very draining. I feel like the way to put this in context for people is to explain it
this way. In those situations you are throwing out social niceties, like being friendly to your
opponent or playing face up after your cards are revealed. I can gain an advantage by not doing
that but in a community of human beings that you actually want to interact with there is social
capital that is involved in that. In competitive Magic environments the expectation is you are
going to throw that out the window for the exchange of a higher chance of winning better prizes. I
feel like that is something the design of Magic pushes really hard because it's very hard to
design the rules in the game to prevent that. I can respond to my opponent's actions as soon as
they've done anything. So taking that sort of experience and taking it to Sorcery. First Sorcery
is a game that fits better with the idea of being more friendly in a game. Like “oh yeh take that
back” and figure out what you are going to do for your turn. That's because for the most part
everything you are doing on your turn, all the information is on the board. So I'm playing my
turn, and all the stuff that you have out technically I have access to. You're not going to like
play cards from your hand or drawing cards on my turn or whatever, that just doesn't happen that
often. The game itself leads to us not having to throw away those social niceties. You don't have
to go down this route of not being friendly and sportsman-like. Also, like I was saying before I'm
getting older, I'm just too old, things have changed. I'm not trying to run into a tournament hall
and leave with the most winnings. That's not what life is. It may be hard not to notice that when
you're in the thick of it. Part of the idea is to build a community that is more aligned with
kitchen table vibes. Then that's the route to go, is to preserve the social capital aspect of the
community that is being built. Rather than to sacrifice that for some competitive edge. So with
that being said I had given the feedback of don't make the prizes be something that makes people
go down that route. As soon as you make the prizes too valuable that's when it starts turning
people. It's hard for people to help themselves I think. Also I just think that with regards to
this Sorcerycon vs the next one. I think there were some things they did well, the pack per win on
the first day, that's perfect. There's a little bit of something there, but it's just a booster
pack. It's not a big thing. I think that sort of thing is great even at these bigger more high
profile events. Like that is fine. I thought that the vibe on day 2 was great. Lots of good
sportsmanship like behavior, but also at the same time no one knew what the prize pool was at the
top. And given the first day with a pack per win, it was like “whatever we are just having fun.”
But I think moving forward, with the knowledge we have of the top prize being a painting and an
uncut sheet being fairly valuable, I think that might set up for individuals beginning to change.
So I think probably just telling people what the prizes are is an important aspect, up front. If
you are going to try and maintain the kitchen table vibe or the overall prizes and not make them
so top heavy. I think announcing that upfront is what you have to do because it's set an
expectation. That's kind of my long winded answer to your question. I hope that explains my
thought process on it.

N: Any final thoughts before we close out?

M: I think there is this thing in Sorcery where when a game ends and I'm on the losing end of
that. One thing I've really come to appreciate about Sorcery is that even when you've lost, the
whole game is like a story being told. I'm sure at one time Magic was that way too, maybe like a
long time ago, but it's not happening any more. There's no mental story of what's happening and
Sorcery lends itself to it much better especially with the board element. The cards are more
thematic because of that. I've really come to appreciate what's going on when we play the game is
you're building this story with another person. That's kind of how I've thought about the games
for a little while and it goes back to the whole social capital and there being a community. When
you stop thinking of the game that way you start to lose that social interaction and when you view
that person only as your enemy trying to create this shared experience…anyway I think Sorcery
lends itself to it very well.

N: Alright, let's just end it there. Thanks for talking with me Mike and I'll see you on Monday
night.